No Crying In Baseball

Pottymouth 0:18
Hey, this week on No Crying in Baseball, we have an incredibly special interview. We're going to be interviewing Bob Kendrick, president of the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum. He's been President since 2011 and we're going to hear a lot of great stories, because he's also known as the CSO - that would be the Chief Storytelling Officer. And before I welcome Bob completely, I just want to put in a little quotation that we got from one of our got from one of our listeners who is super excited for this interview, who said, quote, "no living baseball spokesperson has more gravitas." So that's you, Mr. Kendrick, thank you so much for joining us on No Crying in Baseball this week.

Bob Kendrick 0:56
Yeah, I appreciate it. I can't say that, but I appreciate it and understand where they're coming from. So thank you.

Pottymouth 1:04
That is the reputation that you have out there. You just so to start things off, what we always do with our interviews on NCIB is to ask about you personally, in your very first beginning of your personal connection to baseball. So how did your personal connection to baseball start?

Bob Kendrick 1:30
We grew up quite a while ago in Crawfordville, Georgia, that little country town that I was just referencing, a town of about 500 people east of Atlanta, west of Augusta, and really, my entire family were baseball fans. My father was a baseball fan. Henry Aaron was my childhood idol, all time, favorite ball player, the player that I emulated every single day on the playground. You know, we all wanted to be Henry Aaron. But I think I wanted to be Henry Aaron more than the other kids wanted to be Henry Aaron, so I got to be Henry Aaron. But baseball has always been an important part of the Kendrick family's household. My brothers played. They didn't really call it baseball. They called it hardball, and the local town teams would play each other, and I'm a kid hanging on their coattails watching them. And the people would literally sit around on their cars, and they bring picnic baskets and watch them play baseball, hardball, as they called it. And so it was something that I just gravitated and I think innate. My high school was too small to have a high school baseball team, so all we had was basketball and track. And as oftentimes say, anyone who knows me knows that I do not believe in running. So and I were like this already, so track was out, and so I played basketball, which is what ultimately got me out here to the Midwest. I got a basketball scholarship to play for then Park College, now Park University. This goes back to 1980 when I graduated from high school. So I chased a basketball from Crawfordville, Georgia to Parkville, Missouri. And of course, now I make my living in baseball, albeit baseball history,

Pottymouth 3:21
I just got to say there is a lot of running in basketball, like, a lot a lot of running

Bob Kendrick 3:26
The ball was involved. Somebody's passing you the ball, y'all right.

Patti 3:35
So tell us, okay, actually, before I go the next question, I want to tell you we have our sort of low key campaign to get the Atlanta baseball team to change their name to the Hammers, to like honor Henry Aaron. I mean, can you like, help us with that in any way? Because we just think, you know, this would solve so many issues, and it would be like this terrific honor. And you know, you wouldn't have to change the logo all that much.

Bob Kendrick 3:57
Anytime it comes to Mr. Aaron, if there's a cause that is involving him, count me in so. You know, one of the biggest thrills of my personal and professional life was walking him through the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum in 1999 major league baseball was celebrating the 25th anniversary of Mr. Aaron's breaking of Babe Ruth's record. And as you both know, a record that many thought would never be broken, no less, by a black south. And so my dear friend and the founder of the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum, the late great Buck O'Neil, was out of town. And so I draw the assignment of taking my childhood idol and my all time favorite ball player, Henry Aaron, through the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum, and it is the first and only time that I've ever been starstruck home. Oh guys, I'm at home and I'm laying out on my clothes, and because everything got to be right.

Patti 5:05
Oh, it does right.

Bob Kendrick 5:06
What's wrong with you? Right? Like you don't understand. This is Henry Aaron. And so we get to the we get to the museum, and Mr. Aaron and his wife, Billy, they get there, and there's a throng of media. They got me miked up, and I'm taking him on a tour of the museum. And we get to a portion of the museum that is dedicated to the old Indianapolis clowns, which is, of course, where Mr. Aaron's career began. And there's a photograph of him standing at the train station in Mobile, Alabama. The year is 1952 he's about to leave home to go join the Indianapolis clowns. And of course, at that time, he was a skinny, cross handed hitting shortstop. So for those who might be hearing that term for the first time, Mr. Aaron was a right handed hitter who was hitting with his left hand on top. That is unorthodox. The fear is that you would break your wrist hitting. Sure Henry Aaron was knocking the cover off the baseball in a highly unorthodox fashion. When he gets to the Clowns, they reluctantly put the right hand on top, because they didn't want to tinker with this kid's swing. And of course, as we know, the rest is history. He was shortly after discovered by the Boston Braves, who would become the Milwaukee Braves, who would become the Atlanta Braves. But every time I was around Mr. Aaron, I was reduced to that almost 12 year old kid who when he hit home run 715 in Atlanta's Fulton County Stadium. I'm at home in my mother's living room in Crawfordville, Georgia, and as he's circling the bases in Atlanta's Fulton County Stadium, I'm circling the bases right alongside him in my mother's living room. The couch was first base. The old TV was second base. Little couch was third base, and her recliner was home plate. And so as my childhood idol was touching them all, I'm touching them all too. And there we were, face to face, and we finished the tour. We go across the street f from the museum to the gym theater, where we have a fireside chat with Mr. Aaron, because it had taken him 25 years before he could actually exhale and celebrate this amazing sports accomplishment because of all the hate and vitriol that he received as he was making this move to break Ruth's record. We're talking about over a million pieces of hate mail and guys, this is in 1974! This ain't 1947 when Jackie breaks the color barrier. This is 27 years after Jackie breaks the color barrier, and he doesn't know if he's gonna make it around the bases. And so we've had American presidents tour that museum. We've had dignitaries like the late, great General Colin Powell tour the museum. First Ladies Laura Bush, First Lady Michelle Obama. Oh, a plethora of athletes and entertainers, and as oftentimes say, with no disrespect to any of them, they are not Henry Aaron in the eyes, mind and heart of this kid from Crawfordville, Georgia.

Pottymouth 8:35
That is right!

Patti 8:37
Oh, that's that's an amazing moment in time. I mean, both of those moments, like watching him break that record and then being with him as an adult in your professional life.

Bob Kendrick 8:46
Yes, that's incredible. And my good friend Al Downing gave up that home run. Al Downing, who was on the mound at night, is a dear friend of mine and the museum and one of the Black Aces, you know, one of the 15 African American pitches to win 20 games in a major league season. Of course, people remember him because he gave up the home run to Henry Aaron. And Mr. Downing, you know, he has such a great spirit about it. He said I gave up home runs to a lot of players who were nowhere near as good as Henry Aaron, so you don't feel that bad about giving up a home run to Henry Aaron. Yeah, you can't regret that one.

Pottymouth 9:27
Before your your question, PattI, I just want to point out and thank you for mentioning the intensity of the hate mail that he had to endure. Because I think what happens in history now is that we remember the happy points and so all these stories about Jackie Robinson and Henry Aaron that get told are told in a very positive way, but we have to also understand what came behind that. And you know, just so much appreciation for you, putting that out there and also keeping that as part of the museum reality.

Bob Kendrick 9:58
Yeah, no, it was. A very unique moment in American history, because I can still hear Vin Scully's call as Mr. Aaron is circling the bases, and there's a standing ovation for a black man in the Deep South. And yet, when those two young white kids ran out on the field, there was a collective gasp because there were snipers in the ballpark that night, unreal, because of all the death threats and people thought maybe they were going out to try to do something to harm Mr. Aaron. They were just coming out to celebrate with Mr. Aaron, and he tells the story of his personal bodyguard, who used to carry a binocular case around his neck. And as this ordeal was playing out inside the binocular case, was a 38 snub nosed pistol, and when those kids ran out on the field, the bodyguard had started to open the binocular case. And fortunately, cooler heads prevailed, or it could have turned one of the most memorable moments in sports history to one of the most tragic moments in sports history, and even when you look at his mother greeting him at home plate, and he said, I never knew my mother could hug so hard. She put a big bear hug on him, because you can imagine how tumultuous this had to be for her as her baby was going through this entire ordeal. But also, guys, watch how she, seemingly strategically, turns him away from home plate, and she turned her back to home plate. She's prepared to take a bullet for her baby. Now, that is a mama's love, right there. That's a mama's love. Now, I tell you, as dad, as a daddy, we probably would like to believe that we would do that, but we would might have some second thoughts about it.

Patti 11:54
Yeah, yeah. We're moms. We get that. Yep, we absolutely get that. Oh, my God. What? What a moment you can't just you can't just have the joy you never want to just have the joy.

Pottymouth 12:06
You got to protect your baby.

Bob Kendrick 12:07
You got to protect your baby. And the great Dusty Baker, on deck. He was on deck when Mr. Aaron hit the home run. And Dusty Baker and Ralph Garr were basically assigned to Mr. Aaron. They're young ball players, but they were assigned to Mr. Aaron to entertain him. He liked to laugh, just to take his mind off of the levity of the situation. And Dusty recalls that Mr. Aaron looked at them both and said, "I'm going to get this over tonight." He never had a chance to really celebrate. Yeah, it was just relief that it was now over with.

Patti 12:47
Wow, wow. God, Dusty in a lot of those moments.

Bob Kendrick 12:52
We just had him here in Kansas City at near the end of last year to induct him into what we call the Hall of Game of game honors former major league greats who we believe played the game the way they played it in the Negro Leagues. So you so you played it with high skill, you played it with passion, but you also played it with a little swag. Yeah, you had to have that if you're going to play in the Negro Leagues. But we dedicated much of last year and even the first portion of this year, to celebrating great black managers, the black managers of the Negro Leagues who really never got an opportunity to move into major league baseball, and of course, that handful that have had the opportunity and had great success as managers, so to have Dusty Baker here, Seto Gaston, Jerry Manuel, Willie Randolph, that was extraordinarily special for us here in Kansas City.

Patti 13:47
Wow. Let's back up a little bit how you got to the museum. So I, you know, I have friends who work in museums. They get there either because museum studies or they get there because of the subject matter. Tell us about you.

Bob Kendrick 14:01
Yeah, it certainly wasn't the museum studies, and it really happened somewhat by happenstance. I was working for the daily newspaper, The Kansas City Star, where in its promotions department, which functioned as its in house advertising agency. And so we would provide print space for not for profit organizations to promote their events, programs, etc. And so my former boss, guy named Darryl Durham, stopped by my desk and said, I think I got something that you might enjoy. We're going to work and partner with the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum. They have a traveling exhibition that they want to promote. To be honest, guys, I didn't even know there was a Negro League baseball museum and it was literally just 16 blocks away from where the Kansas City Star operated. And so I said, Well, I better go down and find this museum so that I can start to do a little bit of research background. To work so I could help put this promotional campaign together. I pull up in front of the Lincoln Building where the museum was housed, and I go to the third floor, and I walk into what was then a one room office, Negro League Baseball Museum. And as I so often tell the story, I literally walked into what would become my passion. I fell in love with this museum, I fell in love with this mission, and even more so, I fell in love with the amazing athletes who made this story, and I had no idea that it was going to turn into a career, and truthfully, one of the most gratifying things that I think I could have ever done, either personally or professionally. It has just been an amazing journey, but it all started for me as a volunteer. I ended up volunteering for the museum after putting that campaign together, volunteering for the museum for five years, serving on his board, which was a volunteer board, then became the museum's first Director of Marketing in 1998 served in that role for about 12 years, stepped away, at that time as VP of Marketing, for all of 13 months. Then came back, being introduced as the museum's president in 2011 and so I'm entering my 15th year as president of the museum, but we're talking about an affiliation that is now almost 33 years in the making. The exhibit that I promoted, called discover greatness, is still touring the country to this day, 33 years later, and it began this wonderful relationship for me with this organization, which has given me far more than I could ever give it, but it's been a labor of love since the moment I walked into that one room office.

Pottymouth 17:02
Well, I just have to say that the baseball world is better for it, you know, for our baseball watching experience and baseball loving experience is better. Thank you for your 33 years.

Bob Kendrick 17:14
Yeah, 33 years, and like I said, I had no idea was going to turn into a career. I really didn't. I just wanted to assist the museum in any way that I possibly could, because as a baseball fan, I was just blown away by how little I knew about the history of this game and its connections to the history of this country. Henry Aaron, I just mentioned, was my favorite baseball player, but at that time, I had no idea that he had played in the Negro Leagues, and now I'm wondering, How in the world could I not know this? And the more I delved into this story, the more enamored I became in it, and I wanted to learn as much as I could. And y'all, I didn't want to keep it to myself. I wanted everybody else to feel the same way that I felt about it, because, again, as a baseball fan in particular, I felt cheated. Yeah, felt cheated because I should have known about these legendary stars and what their contributions were. The beautiful thing about the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum is that you don't have to be a baseball fan.

You don't have to be a baseball fan, because if you're a fan of American history, then you're going to love this museum. If you're a fan of the underdog overcoming adversity to go on to greatness, you're going to love this museum. But if you are a baseball fan to boot, as we say in the country, you are in hog heaven, because it combines the best of all of those worlds. And as I was, you know, learning more and meeting these players, and hearing the stories being introduced to more baseball heroes, understanding the complexities of this story as it related, not to just what transpired on the field, but perhaps even more important off the field, it was just fascinating, right? And here I am, 33 years later, and I find the history just as fascinating today as I did 33 years ago when I walked into that one room office.

Patti 19:30
Baseball is such a vehicle to talk about social justice issues, absolutely. I mean, like even, even on our podcast, you know, we talk about women in sports, we talk about immigration issues, we talk about labor issues, we talk about capitalism, we talk about all those things, all through the lens of baseball and and so we do have folks who listen to the show, not because they come in as baseball fans, but this kind of, and so I'm absolutely getting what you're saying is, if you walk in the door with whatever piece of that matters to you, and then, like the rest of that world opens up to you when you're in there,

Bob Kendrick 19:59
There is no question about it. The Negro Leagues Baseball Museum is one of this nation's most preeminent Social Justice Civil Rights Institutions. It's just seen through the lens of baseball. But as I remind our guests, it is triumph over that adversity, and so it is such an inspirational story. I do think a lot of times my guests coming expect to be introduced to a very sad, somber kind of story, because we know that this story is anchored against the backdrop of American segregation, an absolutely horrible chapter in this country's history, but the story here is what emerged out of segregation, this wonderful story of triumph and conquest, and it is all based on one small, simple principle. You won't let me play with you in the major leagues. Okay? I'll create a league of my own. And again, as I remind my guests, when you stop to think about it, that is the American way. And so while America was trying to prevent them from sharing in the joys of his so called national pastime, it was the American spirit that allowed them to persevere and prevail. What's not to love about that kind of story? Absolutely.

Pottymouth 21:27
So I might be asking what could be our most challenging question of the evening, which is, what's your favorite artifact? Does something jump to mind?

Bob Kendrick 21:36
Well, there are, but, you know, they that we that photograph of Mr. Aaron standing at the train station, because it's so personal for me, is perhaps my favorite piece inside the museum, because, not just because of my personal connection to Mr. Aaron, and he was my childhood hero - it's a fact that it's almost this awakening for my guests, because the more majority of them were no different than I was when they see that photograph of a young, 18 year old Henry Aaron standing at a train station, and now he's a member of the Indianapolis Clowns. They had no idea that he had played in the Negro Leagues. And in so many ways, it validates the other people that I've been talking about. You know, I'm telling these stories about Cool Papa Bell and Josh Gibson and Satchel Paige and Hilton Smith, Bullard Rogan, Leon Dade, the host of great, great stars from the Negro Leagues. And people always very respectful, and they're probably saying to themselves, well, you know, they were probably good, but I don't know if they're as good as Bob is saying they were. And then you get to someone you know how great he was at the major league level, but likely didn't know he had played in the Negro Leagues. The same could be said for Willie Mays, who began his career as a 17 year old kid patrolling center field for the Birmingham Black Barons. And when we talk about Henry Aaron and Willie Mays, we are talking about two of the greatest major leaguers of all time. They're going to be on everybody's top five all time, greatest major leaguers, and they both come out of the Negro Leagues. That is just a sampling of the talent that was there in the Negro League. I had always said that had the doors open sooner, the record books would be entirely different. Well, what happens in 2024 through the work of the Commissioner of Major League Baseball and them recognizing the stats of the Negro Leagues and enrolling them into the record books of Major League Baseball? The record books are now entirely different. Commissioner Manford essentially went back and reopened the door and so, but Mr. Aaron, Mr. Mays, Ernie Banks, they are somewhat validators of the talent that was there in the Negro League. So now, when I started to talk about Oscar Charleston, and when I tell people that Buck O'Neil believed that Oscar Charleston was the greatest baseball player he ever saw, and that the old times in the Negro League say he was Willie Mays before we ever knew who Willie Mays was, and that the closest thing to Oscar Charleston would be Willie Mays. And I know that's hard to believe, because Willie Mays is right there at the tip top of the list, but just perhaps there might have been a ball player better than Willie Mays that we did not get the opportunity to see because the doors weren't open. And so we bring those baseball heroes to life at the Negro Leagues Baseball museum

Patti 24:58
Did the combining of the stats bring more people to the museum? Did that change who was coming because, because it did finally make that difference. It really did show people, no, we're right in there.

Bob Kendrick 25:10
Oh, absolutely. Because it raised the national profile, I would dare say national international profile, because of Major League Baseball's position in our society still, and so for baseball to pay this level of recognition to the Negro Leagues, it just raised the interest. It heightened the interest. And that heightened interest as they had more people through our doors at the Negro Leagues Baseball museum. And don't get me wrong, there were some baseball purists who didn't like this, and you knew that was going to happen. That was natural reaction, a natural byproduct of invoking change. And I had people call me. I knew I was gonna get it. Yeah, I knew I was all I was preparing for, but you're one guy. He hits me up on social media, and I know he meant well, but he hits me up and he says, Mr. Kendrick, I just want this to be apples to apples. And it took everything I had not to cuss, everything I had I had, though, and I wrote it back, and I said, Sir, it could never be apples, because no major leaguer ever had to sleep on the bus. No major leaguer ever had to eat their peanut butter and crackers on the bus because they couldn't find a place that would allow them to eat, not that they didn't have the money, but they couldn't find a place that would allow them to eat. No major leaguer ever had to get dressed under the stands of the stadium that they're about to play in, not have a place to wash their uniforms. So no, it could never be apples to apples. If anything, it should help you understand just how great these players were to overcome those kinds of conditions and still perform because the fans didn't care what the obstacles they had to go through. We heard y'all complain, and I want to see what you got. And so the entering of these stats into the record books of Major League Baseball should be a portal, a gateway to deeper understanding you should now hopefully want to learn about Oscar Charleston and Boojum Wilson, Martin Dehigo, these legendary stars of the Negro Leagues who you likely did not know prior to these records being changed. And so we have a wonderful poster that we carry at the museum that says, just because they weren't in the same league as Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb doesn't mean they weren't in the same league as Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb. Oh, that's beautiful. Haha.

Pottymouth 28:04
Exactly, exactly. It reminds me there was an event at Nationals Park last year to honor Josh Gibson and his great grandson said, you know on that line that it's not that Gibson's stats don't reflect the atmosphere of being playing with Babe Ruth. It's that Ruth's stats don't reflect the atmosphere that Gibson had to play under.

Bob Kendrick 28:30
No, it was, it was tough. It was difficult for them. But even when you talk to the handful of existing Negro League players, as much as we sometimes want to kind of lament about the social circumstances you talk to those players, they want to tell you about the joy that they have. Man, I'm playing baseball. I'm traveling the country. I'm making my living playing baseball, and even when they share the challenges that they had. And there was a legendary Negro League about the name of John Mules Miles and out of San Antonio. And he said something that was so prophetic. It was the same, but it was so prophetic when he would oftentimes tell his story, he would say, I'm not complaining, I'm just explaining. This is what happened. Yeah, this is what happened, yeah. And the fact that they would never harbor any ill will of bitterness toward anyone you know that perpetrated something against them as they were trying to play baseball in this country, I just found it, and still find it to be such an endearing quality, particularly in such a cynical world in which we live today.

Patti 29:41
We talk a lot about women in baseball, especially this year, with the new league starting and all that. But you know, but through history, there's always been women in baseball. Can you tell us about women in the Negro Leagues, how they're represented in the museum, what we should look for when we come visit you one day, which I hope is soon.

Bob Kendrick 29:56
We have a wonderful display inside the museum, aptly called Beauty of the Game, and it celebrates the women of the Negro Leagues. And as you both know, there were three pioneering women who played with and against the men in the Negro Leagues. Of course, Toni Stone, Connie Morgan and Mamie Peanut Johnson, pioneers women who competed with and against the men in the 1950s in the Negro Leagues. Toni stone was the first female to play regularly in a male professional baseball league. She took the roster place of someone you've heard his name before because we just finished talking about it, the legendary Henry Aaron. So when the Braves signed Henry Aaron away from the Indianapolis Clowns in 1952, in 1953 they hired Toni Stone, and then Connie Morgan, who hailed from Philadelphia, would join the Clowns. And then my dear friend, the late great Mamie Peanut Johnson, a Washingtonian. She lived and died there in DC. She was the only pitcher out of the three women, five foot, three inch pitcher with a strong right arm, and she was striking those fellas out. And when I saw the name of you all's podcast, No Crying in Baseball, it made me think about the three women, because Mamie in particular was the only one of the three that wanted to play in the All American Girls Professional Baseball League, of course, for those who are listening, that was the inspiration for the hit film of League of Their Own. And the late great Penny Marshall who directed that stuff was an avid Negro League collector. We didn't know this initially.

Patti 31:45
I didn't know that!

Bob Kendrick 31:46
No, we didn't know it either initially. And went until she passed away, and the estate eventually called us and said, Miss Marshall left you all her Negro Leagues collection. Would you like to have it and the sight unseen? I said, Yes, of course. You say yes, I didn't care what was in it. It was from Penny Marshall who directed that epic film. There's one scene that I'm sure most people who've seen the movie remembers near the end of the film, when they're practicing, and the ball gets loose, and this black lady is walking by, and she picks it up and she fires it back in, and everybody's astounded at how hard she threw the ball. Well, that was Penny Marshall's tribute to Mamie Peanut Johnson, who had been denied an opportunity to play in the All American Girls Professional Baseball League. And not only were there women who played in the Negro Leagues, you had women who were owners of Negro League teams, executives of Negro League teams at a level that is well ahead of Major League Baseball, when we talk about the likes of Hilda Bolden, Olivia Taylor, Minnie Forbes, and of course, Effa Manley, aka the queen of the Negro Leagues, yes, first and only woman to be nominated and inducted into the National Baseball Hall of Fame. She, of course, ran the Newark Eagles, and when her husband, Abe, passed away, she took over ownership of the Newark Eagles, and she knew the business of baseball as well as any man. And to give you a great testament to her respect, my dear friend the late great Monty Irving, and this is the highest compliment when we talk about Negro League owners, he would say she never missed a payday. That does a lot, though, but as I tell my guests, and particularly women visitors, the Negro Leagues gave women an opportunity to do things in this country. Before this country gave women an opportunity to do things, it was a pioneering league. They didn't care what color you were, and they didn't care what gender you were. Can you play? Do you have something to offer? And folks, that is the way it is supposed to be, yep.

Patti 34:24
For sure, for sure. So Penny Marshall is not the only very famous, unexpected person to make donations. Can you tell us, we're women of a certain age, so we know this guy, Geddy Lee. You know? Can you tell us a story about Geddy Lee,

Bob Kendrick 34:40
And when my Canadian fans come in and see the display, because it is named for Geddy Lee, and when my Canadian fans come in, they all say, is that the Geddy Lee? And I'm like, Yes, that is the lead singer and bass guitarist for the. Legendary Hall of Fame Canadian rock group rush and Geddy and Rush were playing a concert several years ago before the band officially retired, and of course, they have announced a reunion tour. And so he had a friend that lived here who said, I take it by to see the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum, and like most who come to the museum, he fell in love with the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum, and after leaving a collection of single, signed Negro League player autographed baseball come up in an auction. Now we had no idea that he was a big memorabilia collector, and so he decided that his experience at the museum motivated him to bid on this collection. We had no idea this was going on. He went to bed, and his office calls and says, Geddy Lee has a few baseballs that he'd like to donate, which you all like to have them where, naturally, you know, we're thinking two or three that he might have picked up somewhere. It turned out to be 200 he has since donated an additional lot of 200 now giving us one of the largest collection of single signed Negro League player autographed baseball anywhere in the world. And it's all due to the benevolence of one Geddy Lee, a white Canadian rocker, yeah? Who knew? It just goes to show that this story has no boundaries, yeah, limitations. It touches virtually everyone who experiences it, and y'all in the cases, we got Hall of Famers, we got guys who were cup of coffee, guys in the Negro Leagues, but they're all important to us, because the majority of the names in those cases, they're all dead. We couldn't have gotten their signatures, even if we wanted them. And then I love one that I call the novelty baseball, because it is one signed by the late, great country western singer Charlie Pride and a lot did not know that Charlie Pride had played in the Negro Leagues.

Pottymouth 37:29
He played?!?

Bob Kendrick 37:30
He played in the Negro Leagues. He was a good pitcher and made his way into the New York Yankees organization. Before he hurt his arm. It was after he hurt his arm that he then fell back on a pioneering country western music. Some 72 million albums sold later, we should all have a fall back career.

Patti 37:57
Like I gotta rethink my retirement plan.

Pottymouth 38:01
That is amazing. Talk about having something for everyone in that museum.

Bob Kendrick 38:07
Think about being a star in two. You know, artistic endeavors, sports and music. But what has united us in this country more so than anything? Sports and music, and Mr. Pride was fortunate enough to have a wonderful career in both, but always told him, I said, Man, you made a whole lot more money singing than you would have pitching.

Pottymouth 38:32
For sure. So over these 33 years, you have built up this museum and changed the scope incredibly in your efforts, and now you're taking it to another level, is what we understand. So I'm wondering if you can walk us through the plans for the new facility a little bit from inspiration to actual reality.

Bob Kendrick 38:54
It's amazing, really, because again, as you look at the genesis of this museum, as I mentioned, starting in a little one room office, yeah, today the museum operates in about a 10,000 square foot exhibit, so it's not an overwhelmingly large footprint, but within those 10,000 square feet is a lot of information, and it's beautifully curated. And of course, along that journey today, we are recognized as America's National Negro Leagues Baseball Museum, as deemed and designated so by the United States Congress. So that in itself, is a tremendous journey for a little museum that no one gave any chance of succeeding. And now we're on the cusp of building an international headquarters for both black baseball and social history, as we've announced plans to build a new 30 plus 1000 square foot Negro Leagues Baseball Museum. It will be built right there adjacent to the former Paseo YMCA. The Paseo YMCA is where Andrew Rube Foster organized the Negro Leagues here in Kansas City on February 13, 1920 We've now designated that historic landmark as the home of the future Buck O'Neil Education and Research Center. So we are saving that historic landmark, we will build a new museum adjacent to that historic landmark where it all began. I guess you could say going full circle right back to the very building that gave birth to the story that we're now charged with preserving. And needless to say, I am as excited as you could possibly be about the challenge of having to raise about $35 million to get this project done. But I think it is so symbolic of everything that this museum represents and why it is so important, not just to Kansas City, not just to the nation, but to the world. And I feel really good about the prospect of getting this done. We have ambitious plans to open this new museum sometime in 2028 so I got to go get my best begging shoes. Y'all two three pairs of begging shoes, because I have to do a lot of begging to get that $35 million but we'll get there. The campaign is called pitch for the future, and if anyone listening have an interest in supporting this effort, you can visit us at www.nlbm.com and go to the donation tab and look for Pitch for the Future. As I remind folks, there is no contribution too small, because every buck literally counts. You know, in this quest to get this new project done and really chart an even greater course for our museum.

Pottymouth 41:49
Wow, you have a buck for Buck's memory.

Bob Kendrick 41:52
Absolutely.

Patti 41:56
Wow, that's, that's . . . just in my paid career. I am a grant writer, so I bow to your ambition of raising all that money. Because, wow. But on the bright side, you've got a lot of people who love your museum and who have relationships with it. And you know, like you said, if, if everybody can give a little, I'm hoping some people can give a whole lot.

Bob Kendrick 42:16
Well, you know how this game is, if you get a lot of people to give you a little bit, you can raise a lot of money, and we'll find, we'll find those who will, you know, be very generous in their support of the museum. But I think sometimes, as you all know, when people hear about these large scale capital campaigns, they say, Well, my little contribution won't amount to anything. Yes, it will. Like I said, every buck counts in this case, and it gets us $1 closer to our goal and the realistic realization of building the nation's first Negro Leagues campus as the gateway into historic 18th and Vine here in Kansas City, where the museum currently operates and will still be there at Historic 18th and Vine in the new facility.

Patti 43:01
I love that. You can call it a campus now. A campus, from an office. That's amazing. So will some of this fundraising happen at say, oh, I don't know, Savannah Banana games?

Bob Kendrick 43:10
We're really excited about the Bananas and the rebirth of the Indianapolis Clowns. We talked a little bit about the Clowns as that is where Henry Aaron began his career. And so a few months ago, I was there to be in Savannah for the announcement of two new teams being added to the Savannah Bananas, Bananaball League, one of them being the rebirth of the Indianapolis Clowns. And what a beautiful tribute to the team that really inspired the Bananas. For those of you who have been watching the antics of the Savannah Bananas, and they are red hot. I mean, they have taken baseball to a place that maybe people didn't think our game could go, but they drew inspiration from the Indianapolis Clowns who knew this, who understood this idea of baseball and entertainment way back in the 1940s Yeah. And so it was beautiful that Jesse Cole and the guys over at the Savannah Bananas would recognize that this is who inspired us. And let's add and bring them back to life. And I was there in Savannah for the exciting announcement. And my dear friend, Ryan Howard, great friend of mine in the museum, is serving as the kind of celebrity manager of the team when they make a number of their stops cross country this year. And I was so pleased by the overwhelmingly positive reaction that this generated, and the fact that this is a way to actually activate history, and that's what we're trying to do, anytime that you can bring history to. Life, and so the work that we're doing with the Bananas and now under the banner of the Indianapolis Clowns, the work that we've done with Sony to include the Negro Leagues into the video game MLB, The Show, these things have activated Negro Leagues history with a generation of baseball fans, guys who I'm not sure would have ever thought about the Negro Leagues until we found these creative outlets to introduce this history. So I am really excited. The Bananas will play in front of over 3 million people this year. They're playing in 10 football stadiums. You can't get a ticket. You can't, you know, and there's a wait list to get tickets for their games. And so we have a vast audience that we now have an opportunity, not only to introduce the history of the Indianapolis Clowns, but the history of the Negro Leagues right alongside that. So really, really excited about this partnership.

Patti 46:01
So here's why you're super good at your job. I have been sort of, I don't want to get involved with the Bananas. I don't care. Pottymouth's a big fan. I'm like, no, not my thing. You have just sold me. You have won me over. I'm giving it a shot because of the context you just put it in. Right? That context has mattered for me. So fine. Now I've got to get in line for tickets. Thanks, Bob.

Pottymouth 46:21
I actually am in the lottery for the Bowie Bay Sox because next year, it's fascinating. They're going to some huge places, and then they're also going to some minor league stadiums for like that personal touch. So Patti, you're on if I get those Bowie tickets, who knows?

Bob Kendrick 46:36
I'm looking forward because they're going to play Rickwood Field.

Pottymouth 46:40
Amazing.

Bob Kendrick 46:42
Yeah, Rickwood is the oldest active professional baseball stadium, and of course, that is where a young, 17 year old Willie Mays began his career on that very field. So to have the Indianapolis Clowns in Birmingham playing in that very you know, hollow venue is going to be really, really special. So I am making plans to hopefully be able to be there for that game. I'll make a few other stops along the way as well, and so, but we're excited about the partnership, and I hope folks will really enjoy what we've done to bring to life this team, known as the Indianapolis Clowns, who had a number of legendary stars alongside of Henry Aaron: the great Goose Tatum, who many will likely have heard the name, but they probably heard his name as a basketball player, and he was a great basketball player. Matter of fact, Goose Tatum is in the Basketball Hall of Fame in Springfield Mass He is credited with having invented what we now know to be the hook shot, but Goose Tatum was also a slick fielding first baseman for the Indianapolis Clowns in the Negro League, and had the longest arms I've ever seen on a human being. He was still about 6'3', 6'4', but he had what many say was an 84 inch wingspan. His arms literally came down below his knees, and he was so long and gangly loose as a goose. Hence, that's where the nickname comes from. And he could walk on the field and do absolutely nothing, and people would erupt into laughter, but he could absolutely play. He could pick it at first base, and he turned down an opportunity to go to the major leagues because he didn't want to go through the minor leagues. He was already a two sports star. He was starring for the Harlem Globetrotters, but he's also starring for the Indianapolis Clowns. There's a common denominator there, the guys who owned and promoted the Clowns, Abe Saperstein and Sid Pollock, had the Harlem Globetrotters. And so essentially, the Indianapolis Clowns became the Harlem Globetrotters of baseball. And so that there is, you know, this history is fascinating, absolutely.

Pottymouth 48:59
And you know, as a Red Sox fan, I was more than excited to see the first signing for the Clowns being Jackie Bradley Jr.

Bob Kendrick 49:05
My friend, Jackie Bradley Jr!

Pottymouth 49:07
What a guy, what a guy. Well, another fandom that I have outside Red Sox is like, you know, my heart, but I'm also a fan of the winter leagues, and I love especially following what's going on in the Latin American winter leagues. So I was wondering if you could share a little bit for our listeners about the connections between the Negro League players and some of the winter leagues. And you mentioned Martin Dihigo, who unbelievable as far as his records go throughout many leagues, right?

Bob Kendrick 49:34
We have these life size statues at the museum that are doing what we call the Field of Legends, and the great Martin Dihigo is at the plate. Wow. For those who have not heard that name, you're right. He hailed from Cuba. His nickname was El Maestro, the master because he could do it all. Played all nine positions. Played all nine of them, well. No, he is the only baseball player in the history of our sport to be enshrined into five different countries baseball Halls of Fame. He's in the Mexican, Cuban, Venezuelan, Dominican and in Cooperstown. I told the story during during last year's World Series in 1937 that Dihigo was playing in the Mexican League, and he wins the Triple Crown in pitching. He goes 19 and two struck out, 184 with a ridiculous 0.90 ERA. But the story gets even better. He hit .387 that same season and won the batting title as well, but the story is even better. They're playing in a championship game. Dihigo was managing the Veracruz team, so he's player manager, and they're in the deciding championship game against and they're facing off against the legendary Leroy Satchel Paige, and Dihigo, they're knotted up one one in the bottom of the ninth, when Dihigo hits a walk off home run to beat Satchel. So he's the winning manager, and he had the game winning walk off home run that 37 seasons will likely never be duplicated again, and yet he still remains a mystery to most baseball fans. How could we not know about a ballplayer the magnitude of Martin Dihigo, but that's the plight of the Negro Leagues. Or, as my late mother would say, you don't know what you don't know, but you're absolutely right. See, Negro League players were oftentimes the first Americans to play in many Spanish speaking countries, and so when we went to those countries, we were treated like heroes. So now we're going to stay in the finest hotels, eat in the finest restaurants that those countries had to offer. And then, of course, you'd come back home and you'd be treated like a second class citizen.

Pottymouth 52:04
What an embarassment for our country.

Bob Kendrick 52:07
A lot of Negro League players would call those Spanish speaking countries home for one simple reason. In those countries, they weren't black baseball players. They were just baseball players. But in this country, the Afro Latino athlete such as a Martin Dihigo, Minnie Miñoso, right? They could not play in the Major Leagues either, so they found sanctuary playing in the Negro Leagues. So when Jackie Robinson breaks the color barrier, he doesn't do it for just American born Blacks. He does it for every player who enjoys this great sport today. And that's what we want people to understand. We're so proud. We have the Puerto Rican Hall of Fame plaque of the legendary Willard Brown. Willard Brown was a star outfielder for the Kansas City Monarchs. He is in the National Baseball Hall of Fame, but in Puerto Rico, he was as beloved as their native son, Roberto Clemente, particularly by the older Puerto Rican baseball fan where in Puerto Rico Willard Brown won the Triple Crown twice. His Puerto Rican home run record of 27 in 60 games still stands to this day, and in Puerto Rico, his nickname was Ese Hombre, that man. Now, I understand the kids now all like to refer themselves as him well before there was him, there was Ese Hombre, that man Willard Brown, the fans, the fans would start chanting when he came to the plate. Ese Hombre, something special was going to happen. So yes, there has always been this brotherhood between black and brown, or, as we say, Negro Leagues Baseball. .

Pottymouth 54:02
And that's that's something that we really have to think about today. So I think I have our last question, unless PattI you had something else to pop in,

Patti 54:11
nope, nope.

Pottymouth 54:11
All right, we could honestly talk to you probably twice as long. So appreciate your time with us. This has been amazing, eye opening, and I'm really looking forward to our listener reaction after this interview. So, we figured that we'd have to tie it up with a Buck story. So after listening to the audio book of Joe Posnanski's time with Buck O'Neill, what a magnificent person, somebody who had missed that f irst Hall of Fame, fame voting by one vote and one of our listeners,

Bob Kendrick 54:47
One stinking vote.

Patti 54:48
One stinking vote.

Pottymouth 54:49
One stinking vote, right? One of our listeners has this beautiful quote who wrote in saying, "Every time I heard him talk or read about him", meaning you having every time he heard you talk or read about Buck O'Neil. "It gave my cynical soul hope for humanity, just a breath of pure life, the essence of decency." So shout out to our friend Bryan for that. But that really encapsulated the feeling that I got learning about Buck O'Neil and hearing the stories. So do you have a favorite Buck story to sort of wrap this up?

Bob Kendrick 55:19
You know, there are any number, and most of those stories involve him telling stories about other players. Rarely did he talk about himself. And so one of my favorite Buck stories is a story that he told about his dear friend, Leroy Satchel Paige, and they were playing in the Denver Post tournament. So Satchel has his all star team called the Satchel Paige, All Stars. Buck O'Neil is playing first base for Satchel and his All Stars. They're playing an all white semi-pro team and so Buck says the first kid gets up in the dug from the dugout, gets into the batter's box. He digs in, says Satchel threw him a fastball. Kid swung as hard as he could, topped it, dribbled it down the third baseline. It stays fair. He beats it out and gets an infield hit. Well, Buck says about that time one of the kids from the semi-pro team stepped out on top of the dugout steps, and he yells out, "let's beat him. He ain't nothing but an overrated darkie." Well, if you knew Satchel, Satchel was likely more offended by being called overrated, and so Satchel had a nickname for everybody, and his nickname for Buck was famously Nancy, which is a whole nother story. But anyway, Satchel looks over at first base. He said, Nancy. Did you hear that? He said, Yes, Satchel, I heard him. He said, Nancy, bring him in. So Buck is at first base, he says, he turns and emotions for the outfield to take a couple of steps in. So Satchel looks over at first base. He said, Nancy, bring him all the way in. Honest to God's truth, there were seven guys kneeling around the mound. Satchel Paige and the catcher, and Satchel strikes out the side on nine straight pitches. He looks over to to the semi-pro team dugout and says, "Overrated darkie hey." Buck said the kid that said this, he was embarrassed. He was crying. They all came out to apologize to Satchel and his teammates, but Buck O'Neil swore to the day he died, that if he had one game to win and any picture from any era, it would be the legendary Leroy Satchel Paige. He said, You might beat him when he was out there, messed around, but he says, when he was locked and loaded, forget about it. No. And you know, there's not a day that goes by that I don't think about my friend Buck O'Neil. What a tremendous blessing it has been for me to have had the opportunity to hang out with Buck O'Neil, one of the finest human beings to ever walk the face of this earth, who just happened to be a great baseball player. But as great a baseball player as he was, he was an even better person. And you're right, this world could use a whole lot of Buck O'Neil in it right now, but everything that we do is certainly dedicated not only to his memory, but the memory of the board and 3000 men and women who played in the Negro Leagues. And so we're going to build Buck a new house, though. Yeah, we'll build him a new house. And I'm excited about the challenge of doing just that.

Patti 59:04
Bob, thank you so much for spending this time with us. Your stories are wonderful. We want to come see your current house to Buck, and we want to come see the new one and experience it for ourselves. But just the way you tell these stories, I think you're going to get a lot, a lot of new visitors coming to see you, because it's just you're really bringing it all to life just by your words.

Bob Kendrick 59:24
I certainly hope so, and I can't thank you all enough for providing the opportunity me to get on here and run my mouth, tell a few stories. We really appreciate that opportunity. I look forward to welcoming you both to Kansas City, to the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum.

Pottymouth 59:39
That's right.

Patti 59:44
And you're welcome back on the show anytime. Believe me, anytime. Thank you so much, Bob. Take care.

Bob Kendrick 59:45
All right. Thank you all.